"Jonathan Was Held Hostage While In Office" - Wale Soyinka
Nobel Laureate and renowned Nigerian writer, Wole Soyinka, has said former President Goodluck Jonathan was caged by some powerful forces while in power and therefore, was not aware of some of the things going on around him.
Soyinka made the statement while giving an interview to Zero Tolerance magazine. In a damning assessment of Jonathan’s tenure, Soyinka said that the former president did not know that the nation had been compromised so badly under him until he, Soyinka, brought some issues to his notice.
When asked if the former president was caged, Soyinka said: “Correct. There were forces around Jonathan, which he himself did not understand and that is why I stressed that you’ve got to choose
your circles of advisers very carefully, when you are in charge. He was caged; things were going on that he did not know about.”
Read the full interview with Wale Soyinka for yourself and see what he had to say about Jonathan's government amongst other things below:
My Take On Corruption – Soyinka
Professor Wole Soyinka, Africa’s first Nobel Prize winner for literature
and frontline crusader for social justice is the quintessential
academic with a reputation for candour. The octogenarian, who is
venerated for his accomplishment in the literary world and a life of
activism, is equally famous for a rebellious streak that is founded on
abhorrence for injustice. In this rare encounter with ZT Team ofWILSON UWUJAREN, SAMIN AMADIN, DELE OYEWALE, TONY ORILADE, THERESA NWOSU, MONDAY EMONI, AUGUSTINE OMONKHEGBELE and IDRIS ISIYAKU at
his office in Lagos three days before the March 28, 2015 presidential
election, Soyinka bared his mind on issues of anti-corruption,
especially President Jonathan’s anti-corruption posture and political
developments in the country.
Excerpts:
ZT: You have been speaking lately and it appears you are worried about the state of affairs in the country.
Soyinka: Nigeria is so peculiar and dramatic. Even
talking about the potentials before we talk about the negativities,
Nigeria is a nation for perpetual study. I think in Nigeria, it is the
potential which hits people and makes them believe in Nigeria. It tends
to make them react when they see potentials being wasted and it is a
tragedy to see potentials wasted. But paradoxically, it is a realization
of the existence, that positive, that keeps many Nigerians and even
foreign people going.
ZT: You talked about the potentials of the country but we have
not been able to translate this potential to reality in terms of
development. Why is this so?
Soyinka: It is the human potentials that interest me. I
travel and everywhere I go I am amazed at the presence of Nigerians.
The intelligence, integrity, productivity, initiative, you name it. So
what is the problem? I think we got it wrong from independence as people
became so conscious of the divisions because we wanted so much to
satisfy the plurality of interests. I will say, we neglected the
importance of real value, human value and the quality of potential in
human beings and we contrived phrases like geographical spread, regional
quota, etc and allowed mediocrity to reign. I think that is the problem
that we are dealing with till today.
ZT: How do we overcome this problem of mediocrity?
Soyinka: We must acknowledge that we made a huge error
in satisfying the lowest common denominator of the available human
potential in this country and we elevated what I call the reign of
mediocrity. Quite frankly, I think it is about repudiating the past,
creating space for new thinking for the best of the new generation,
creating both political and geographical space and going at it with
single mindedness that says, ‘enough of buttering, sentiments and
massaging the ego of the old brigade’.
It is what I sought to do for instance, when I tried to create a new
political party, which I stressed to them that this is not my party. I
believe very much that there has to be a revolution and this is a party
for the young. I said it is a zero kobo party and you people have to
learn in your campaigning how to use the bicycles again and if you are
in areas where there are donkeys, you have to campaign on donkey backs
from door-to-door and stop waiting to be financed by the old brigade
because you will have to do their bidding. Instead, go to the young,
appeal to the young. Make a small beginning, even if it is a local
government, see what can be done with a new brigade, seize some space
and create room for emulation from other people. Don’t keep waiting for
the ‘money bags’ so you can spread all over the country.
ZT: Did that message settle well with the youths?
Soyinka: It did not settle well with them. I was
shocked. First of all, they had not got over the notion that when you
start a political party, you are creating space for yourself. So many of
them were shocked when they realized that I was serious and had no
interest in occupying any political position, so they started to fall
out one by one. I said to them, this is your space, this is for you. I
have no money to give to you but I have ideas and organizational
capacity, but you are going to do the donkey work, the leg work. Once it
is exhausted, you are on your own.
ZT: To what extent did you try to drive this vision?
Soyinka: Of course to the best of my capacity, we held
several meetings here in my office, I showed them directions and we had
meetings in Abuja. Once, I refused to go to Owerri when I discovered
that the slogan they were using was ‘Wole Soyinka, Wole Soyinka, Wole
Soyinka’ I said I was not coming because this is not about Wole Soyinka.
I remember someone once came proudly from the North to show me a poster.
He was contesting and his picture was on the poster and there was my
picture on the poster too. I asked them, ‘don’t you get the message, why
make this useless poster?’ And I said ‘am sorry, but this has to be
destroyed and I did’.
I must confess I could not win them from the notion that a political
party has to be about a single individual. Maybe the next members will
get it right because the party is not entirely dead. That INEC does not
recognize a party does not mean the party does not exist. INEC has its
own rules, we were recognized and deregistered. I said to them, ‘shut
yourselves down and turn yourselves into a movement, until you are
re-registered’.
ZT: Do you see the party being revived again?
Soyinka: Of course. My advice to them now is to team up
with some of the new parties like KOWA Party that is led by that lady
(Remi Sonaiya). They came to see me here and I was impressed by the
lady. The youth should come together to challenge the status quo. They
must not give up.
ZT: What strikes you about the KOWA Party?
Soyinka: I only met the party leaders and I have seen
pieces of their manifesto and I was impressed by the youthfulness of the
party and its candidate and the tendency of a total new approach to
politics.
ZT: To achieve any change in the minds of the youth, there must
be reorientation in terms of materialistic tendencies, corruption and
crime generally. How can we achieve this?
Soyinka: I agree with you. The battle is the mind and
to achieve this mind change, the media has crucial role to play. The
media must be used effectively to reach the masses. You have to find a
new language in which to address the people and demonstrate what is
possible. You see, concreteness impresses people more than all the
grammar of Wole Soyinka. There is a governor that says he goes out to
eat amala with his people and what he did was to create ‘stomach
infrastructure’, that kind of blasphemous message.
You go to the ‘bukar’ and engage people in languages different from the
one I am using with you now, get down to their basics and get your hands
dirty with work among the people. This is something I realize is a full
time job.
ZT: But cyber crime, bank fraud and many others are today perpetrated by the youths, how can we tackle the situation?
Soyinka: First and foremost, we must catch them young. I
remember late Tai Solarin used to use this expression ‘I’ll die for the
youths, I’ll die for the youths’ and once, I called him, ‘egbon’ (my
older brother) stop saying that. Some of these people you want to die
for are the ones that will stab you in the back so don’t use that
expression because you and I know that they are not angels. Most of them
are rapists, cultist and I use that expression as opposed to a
confraternity which is confused in the mind in my experience which is
very sad.
The obstacles to this transformation in youths are ignoramus. We just
had a festival here and the theme was ‘Corruption’. School children were
handpicked to know how they see the issue of corruption, why do we keep
crying that the adult society is corrupt, what is it that you see? Many
schools were involved and ICPC wanted to take the results and maybe you
(EFCC) can take that over if they are not fast enough because this
project has been over a year now. We have their response and all those
paintings of how the children see us.
Exercises like that involving the children put to shame the adults by
depicting what corruption does to them. So it’s a matter of catching
them young and that way we transform the next level of humanity who in
turn exercises an influence on adults, aunties, and parents etc. Because
that top stratum is almost finished.
Look at this election for instance, the current election (2015); have
you ever seen such an expensive contest? Where is all the money coming
from? Look, this country is awash with naira and dollars on a level we
have not seen since Obasanjo made his third term attempt. But this has
beggared even the corrupt spending which took place over that exercise.
This election, I have never known anything like this in any other
country.
ZT: Was that why it was reported in the media recently that you ‘bombed’ President Jonathan?
Soyinka: Ahh! Am not Boko Haram oh (laughter). I have
been speaking with President Jonathan not only publicly, but privately.
There are policies that are avoidable. When it comes to the issue of
corruption, Jonathan surrounds himself with certain unsavoury characters
and that is something you don’t have to do if you are in charge. You
are in a position to select those who are seen with you so that the
populace can look up to them.
And I can say this because by the time this interview comes out, the
elections would have been over and nobody will charge me with
campaigning for or against somebody. Quite frankly. I saw him as
recently as two weeks ago; because there are still certain things to be
resolved, whether he returns to office or not, time exists to be
exploited no matter the circumstances and no matter what is taking place
during that period. So leadership of course has a primary
responsibility but followership is very critical and you mentioned it
before, why do you prefer to go this way rather than that way? People
prefer not to carve a totally different path for themselves and it is
relative to all of us.
ZT: Critics of the Jonathan administration rate him low in fighting corruption, what is your view?
Soyinka: As a president, you’ve got to show some
example. I am disturbed for instance when I read that a candidate said,
‘I will not probe anybody or something like that’. You don’t fight
corruption by sweeping everything under the carpet, you don’t. You just
say, am going to allow the law take its course; I am going to empower
the agencies which has been set up for such specific purpose of stemming
the corrupt out flow of resources from this nation and don’t even talk
to me about corruption beyond saying you going to strengthen existing
institutions.
That is what we want to hear, don’t make any promises.
That is what we want to hear, don’t make any promises.
ZT: Why should a president involve himself in what is already structurally established and dedicated to that purpose?
Soyinka: I warned your former boss, I told him that,
your task will be done when in the course of your investigation, you
discover that the source of the problem is the very person who appointed
you. He looked shocked a bit, and eventually Ribadu and I met in
London, after he was removed and El-Rufai was also in exile after they
tried to kill him. We met and Ribadu refused to sit down. I asked him to
sit but he said no, that until I accepted his apology, he won’t sit
down. I asked what apology? And he said, “i should have listened to you,
I failed to listen to you. Something you said to me, and I failed to
listen” Ribadu admitted that he realized very late that Obasanjo was
using him.
So we have to destroy that link between power and corruption. Audu Ogbe
confirmed what i am telling you. Then it was ‘go after this one, go
after that one, ahh you did not arrest him? Arrest his mother!’ I am
challenging Obasanjo to deny it.
So when you are looking for corruption, you should look at the entire
stratum of the society, while some forms of corruption are direct,
others are indirect. For others, corruption sometimes is encouraged by
careless statements. This is a hydra-headed problem which is why I had
to invent a monster to answer the name of corruption and I ended up with
‘HYDROPUS’ which means a hydra-headed monster plus octopus (laughter). I
needed something that will convey to people what corruption is, what it
does, its antecedents, its ability to camouflage, to vanish and
resuscitate somewhere else, which is why i used school children to give
me an image of corruption.
ZT: There seems to be some confusion on what corruption entails,
some people argue that corruption is not stealing, what is it to you?
Soyinka: This is what we are talking about, how can a
public figure, an intelligent person like that come out to tell the
public that corruption is not stealing. Then you should have asked him,
what then is corruption? The media should have challenged him.
ZT: Election is here, and between the devil and the deep blue sea (PDP and the APC), where will you turn?
Soyinka: This is a very tough one. Maybe, we should
have even intervened in this political process at the stage when they
are selecting their candidates to say if you go in this direction, we
won’t take you. Maybe that is what we should have done. Buhari on one
hand, has a very dark past which some of us find very difficult to
obliterate, while Jonathan on the other hand, has been dismal, allowing
himself to be surrounded by questionable people like Fayose. Do you have
to appoint somebody like Femi Fani Kayode as Director of media in
charge of presidential campaign? Someone on trial for stealing and
conspiracy to steal? Is this what you understand by democracy?
ZT: Can a man under prosecution for corruption be qualified for a ministerial appointment?
Soyinka: Do you need somebody like that? What about
somebody like Gbenga Daniel who closed down a legislature for almost a
year? When I heard this, I called Jonathan, I asked him, ‘is this your
understanding of democracy”. A governor closes down an assembly with the
aid of the police and the place is under lock with ‘Mopol’ guarding it.
When Jonathan selected this person as his campaign manager in Abuja, I
telephoned him; I said does this support democracy that you choose this
person. It is not a question of this person is a governor therefore come
to my party, I can work with him. No, when a president picks somebody
for a particular duty it means you are pointing that person out as an
aspect of government so you see, it is impossible for me to pick
Jonathan as a candidate.
in fact, Jonathan’s campaign manager is the greatest asset that Buhari
could have hoped for. All the opposition needs to do is look at his
spokesman, is that the kind of person he should have?Look, Buhari is a
very lucky man. Between the two, the one whom I think has paid some debt
to the community would be Buhari because I think he has accepted the
fact that he made mistakes. He hasn’t brought himself round to
apologise, if he had done that, I might have been less ambiguous about
him. But I think from my findings about him, I think he is a born again
phenomenon. If am wrong, well, too bad. Though I don’t believe in
‘born-againism’ but I think this may be an exception.
ZT: Would you say that corruption in Nigeria is a reflection of the society?
Soyinka: I don’t know what is happening to the society,
but I can tell you this much: when I was a child, for a public/civil
servant to be caught in corrupt practices, that individual will be a
pariah. He will be a complete reject of the society; he/she could not
raise his or her voice to speak in the public. What you are asking is
what happened to society? So what happened between that time and now?
That time when a public officer, prison or customs officer caught in
corruption hides his face in shame amongst his peers, he just couldn’t
come out publicly. For instance, I remember one or two cases when
somebody couldn’t come to our house the way he used to, he just
disappeared. Today, when they come back, they get chieftaincy titles,
they are received in grand style, cows are killed, they ride on white
horses. You have a former president who welcomes political thugs, like
Obasanjo who welcomed the late Adedibu who rode into his Otta farm on
horseback with Kakaki and Obasanjo even named Adedibu his political
mentor. A former president of this nation, called the late Adedibu his
political mentor! Society is finished!
ZT: So, how did we get here?
Soyinka: You tell me? I do not know. I do not know what
has happened. People say human nature is a very vague expression,
people tend to say human nature is corruptible anyway and it comes from a
theological point of view, goes back to the Garden of Eden, that there
is always this corrupt gene waiting to be activated that we inherited
from the very beginning. I don’t believe in that theological excuse but I
know that the sudden oil wealth, easy access to wealth fuelled the
process, it definitely accentuated the process, it made corruption easy
because if you are corrupt and you have extra cash you are able to shut
the mouth of your accuser and they will be silenced.
ZT: Let me take you back to the issue of Ribadu which you raised
earlier. There was a time when we interviewed former President Obasanjo
and he told us that Ribadu investigated him and cleared him of all
corruption charges. I don’t know if it tallies with what you have just
told us?
I am not going to speak on this; but one thing I like, when I speak, I
don’t dwell on rumours but at the same time I form opinion within the
limits of the investigation which I make, that’s how far I go. I am a
very curious person; I’ll always ask: is this thing true, is it not
true? And I use my own means to investigate and come to my conclusion.
Anybody can say I have been investigated, I have been investigated, it’s
okay, some people are lucky and others not so lucky. So let’s leave it
at that.
ZT: When you said Ribadu told you that he will not sit until you
forgave him of something you told him, did he tell you exactly what?
Soyinka: Of course he did, that was one of the longest
discussions I had in a long time. We were there for almost four hours
and we spoke for at least two and a half hours. I asked him a couple of
questions and he told me certain things in confidence and there were
things which corroborated the things I have heard from different
directions on investigations which I myself had made.
But the important thing is that he came around to see that my indication
to him is that you had to get to the source of corruption which grows
when it is tolerated, what we call the culture of impunity. When a
leader encourages the culture of impunity, the society is lost and it
makes the work harder for the rest of us. As I said in Tunis in a
conference on this very subject, when you fight corruption, corruption
strikes back and that is the truth because when you fight corruption,
you get confidence and when it gets to impunity, then it gets aggressive
and says, ‘oh, so you think you are different? You think you are tough
and different?’ This is why some of us are almost permanently in the
libel court. I just had a case recently that has been in court for over
ten years now, that’s a long time, a case of libel, especially when the
libel is committed by those whom you exposed, because they think that by
libeling you, after a while you get tired and get off their back which
of course I refused to do. And this case has been transferred from one
judge to the other, did I say ten years? Fifteen years, just before
Justice Oke, in fact it was resumed by somebody else who picked up the
dirty gauntlet and libeled me again on this very issue, and until even
Abacha’s son had the nerve to use that statement, and libeling me on the
internet, I didn’t waste my time because I think the next day, the
United States returned another huge sum of Nigeria’s stolen money from
the Abachas coffers. But the thing is that it is not fair to those who
fight corruption that they have to fight the aggressiveness, the
impunity of the corrupt so maybe you (EFCC) should have a department
which caters for the interest of those who are victims of aggression of
corruption. I think it’s about time, otherwise, people will get tired
and wouldn’t want to serve or appear in the public because of this
aggressive, corrupt cabal which take up their own guns and who
manipulates society and opinion of the society. So that is an idea for
you, innovation.
ZT: Can you share with us some of the things you told Jonathan on the two occasions you met with him?
Soyinka: Oh its more than two occasions, but two in
recent times. I will tell you one interesting aspect of what we
discussed. I will reveal to you that Jonathan did not know that the
nation had been compromised so badly in this telephone thing with the
King of Morocco. I was the one who told him when we met over an issue
and I said to him, ‘by the way, how is the king of Morocco? Jonathan
didn’t know what I was talking about’. When I mentioned the telephone
issue, he thought I was talking about his campaign for the ADB managing
director for which he was lobbying other Head of States. He said ‘I
haven’t spoken to him in a long time’, and I said ‘no, you spoke to him a
few days ago.’ He said ‘no, I intend to speak with him, I even asked my
foreign ministry to link me up with him because I am campaigning for a
candidate but I haven’t spoken to the king of Morocco’. Then I said to
him, ‘you better go and read the newspapers of last week’. And I can
tell you, he didn’t know.
So can you imagine that the president did not know that a scandal had
developed that involved a withdrawal of an ambassador! And again, I am
revealing this to you since this interview won’t be published till after
the elections because I wouldn’t want to be seen as campaigning for or
against one side.
It shows how in deep trouble governance can be; governance can dig
itself into a huge hole and not even know it’s in there. The statement
that was issued was issued the night when I met him.
ZT: So are you saying Jonathan was caged?
Soyinka: Correct. There are forces around Jonathan, you
put your fingers around it, which he himself does not understand and
that is why I stressed that, you’ve got to choose your circle of
advisers very carefully, when you are in charge. He’s been caged; things
are going on in his ministry that he did not know about.
On a lighter note, I asked him, ‘what are you doing about madam’, because that one seems to be embarrassing the nation as usual because that seems to be her function as so called first lady. You go to a section of the country and tell your supporters to stone those who campaign for change and you insult another part of the nation by calling them those who produce children that they cannot look after. That woman should be charged for incitement, chaos; it’s incredible that she is allowed to run loose.
On a lighter note, I asked him, ‘what are you doing about madam’, because that one seems to be embarrassing the nation as usual because that seems to be her function as so called first lady. You go to a section of the country and tell your supporters to stone those who campaign for change and you insult another part of the nation by calling them those who produce children that they cannot look after. That woman should be charged for incitement, chaos; it’s incredible that she is allowed to run loose.
ZT: What was his reply?
Soyinka: I am not going to tell his response
(laughs…..). But I am free to tell you what I said, it will be an abuse
of privilege if I tell you his response.
ZT: Your are widely considered as the godfather of cultism in
Nigeria because of your role as co-founder of Pyrates Confraternity in
your days a student of the University College, Ibadan…
Soyinka: (Cuts in) Because those who say that are
willfully ignorant. Everybody knows that fraternities are a normal
culture in all colleges. It exists in all colleges. President Clinton
was a member of a fraternity. In fact, anybody who goes to College in
the United States is a member of a College fraternity. There is
absolutely nothing evil or occultic about fraternity.
But here , the media is largely responsible for fuelling the ignorance
of society of the word cultism and fraternity. This is a disservice and I
have said it again and again. There are evil cults, whose members must
prove themselves by going to rape. There are others whose entry test is
to slash or beat somebody or rob, it has nothing to do with College
fraternity. The media owes the responsibility to constantly tell the
public the truth. But they go on and children grow up believing that
college fraternity is Satanic, demonic, and this is wrong.
I was on the Disciplinary Committee in University of Ife. It will
surprise you to know the number of students who we recommended for
expulsion as a result of cult activities; despite the spineless attitude
of some members on the committee who would beg for clemency for
children of the elite. If you know the people that were involved,
Commissioners of Police were involved, always writing letters. Imagine, a
student just gang raped a girl because he is a member of a cult and you
ask me to review that violation! These are letters which I received
from the elites of the society because their wards were involved in
occultic activities. I said this is not fraternity, this is criminal and
normally such cases should be charged before the court. But while I am a
member of this College, this type of character does not belong here and
must be expelled.
Society itself is responsible for the degradation where it takes place
from fraternity into cultism but the distinction must be made. The
Buccaneers call themselves a fraternity; they originated from the
original Pyrates Confraternity. They were thrown out for misbehaving and
destroying the efforts of the fraternity. Black Axe, these are cults,
the leaders know, they won’t deny it.
What we formed in my University days was anti-corruption and
justice-seeking student organization, not a cult group as many ignorant
Nigerians want to make believe. I am still a member of Pyrates
confraternity and anyone who wants to accuse me of cultism is making a
big mistake and incidentally, there have been cases where the Court
declared the Pyrates confraternity as non occultic or secret society.
The judgments are there and yet the public is still ignorant of the
clear difference. It is when they are fighting Wole Soyinka that is when
they say Wole Soyinka is the father of cultism, their father is the
founder of cultism (laughter).
ZT: How would you describe your only experience in government as Chairman of the Federal Road Safety Commission?
Soyinka: First, let’s situate my involvement, so you
can understand why I never considered myself ‘in government’. The Corps
was my very own idea. I invented the Road Safety Corps in the Old Oyo
State days, while I was teaching at the former University of Ife. I was
tired of picking up bodies on the Ife-Ibadan highway – which I dubbed
the Ife-Ibadan Slaughter Slab. I got sick of scooping up the brains of
my students from the tarmac after supposedly stuffing them with
knowledge. I became a regular feature in the UCH emergency section where
I routinely deposited the mangled. Nigerian road users’ stupidity,
their irresponsibility enraged me on every trip etc. etc. – not to
mention the superfluous presence of the police. They hadn’t the
slightest interest in road sanity, only checking ‘partik’lars’ and
collecting private tolls. So, call it an act of self-interest if you
like, trying to save myself from high-blood pressure or even potential
homicide – because, sometimes, I wanted to KILL some drivers! Well, one
Sunday, after a particularly stressful trip, I locked myself in my
university office and fleshed out the idea of a civilian volunteer
‘brigade’, backed by a handful of uniformed corps. I sent it to the then
governor, General David Jemibewon…..and that was how it all began.
Later the politicians chased the Corps from the Federal Roads, using an
antiquated colonial law. It was an inhuman act, since the Corps had
recorded such remarkable success. Of course the death statistics rose
astronomically, and we were invited to turn this state initiative into a
federal one – under a military government. They were losing their
finest officers on Nigerian roads, not on the battlefield, so they sent
Bolaji Akinyemi to me as emissary. Some other states had emulated Oyo –
they all came to Oyo for training, so the nationwide expansion was not
too difficult.
Now this will interest you. With the brief mention I have already made
of police malfunction, even before the Corps was formally inaugurated, I
set up a secret Monitoring Unit, all volunteers. That was how we weeded
out the misfits so early, and earned a reputation for the cleanest
agency in all of Nigeria. The road users learnt that they were in
trouble if they offered a bribe. We even banned pleading, begging,
including that nauseating habit of drivers and their passengers
prostrating themselves on the road for leniency. I loathed that abject,
self-abasing culture. I still do. The Road Safety Corps was justly
feared. That reputation endured until Obasanjo came into power, merged
the Corps with the police – for reasons best known to him. A few years
later the National Assembly forced him to rescind that decision but of
course by then, the damage was already done. My ‘incorruptible’ had
imbibed the culture of wetin you carry?
ZT: After the Road Safety experience, you have not taken up any appointment in government. Why is this so?
Soyinka: Only if an aggressive policy of protection is
guaranteed for those who undertake such risk-laden assignments. And by
aggressive I mean, criminal prosecution against those who attempt to
smear the reputation of anti-corruption leaders and impugn their
integrity. I told you about the success of the Monitoring squad in
eliminating corruption. Well, it cost me dear. As I have often stressed,
“Corruption Fights Back”. It fights back desperately, dispensing
calumny and shoveling dirt with abandon. Corruption never gives up, it
only lies in wait. Each time I fought the government on any issue – you
could guarantee the timing – those slime merchants went to work! I sued,
they begged for mercy and I settled for published retractions. But they
were only re-grouping. They resumed their campaign, I sued again, and
won. Back they came again, under Sani Abacha, so back we went to the
courts – the last case was decided only a few months ago, and of course I
was awarded damages – that is, twenty something years afterwards.
When the criminals found that I couldn’t be moved, they attacked my wife
– then my daughter. That’s how unconscionable Corruption is. Each filed
suits against the trash purveyors and each time they were awarded
damages. It’s bad enough that I should expend my time and energy, why
should my family come into it? That sickens me. About time the state
took a hand – unless of course it believes that even agencies like yours
can handle corruption without civilian involvement!
ZT: With your constant criticism of government and your views on
purposeful leadership, shouldn’t you be seeking an elective office to
lead by example?
Soyinka: Thank goodness, that is now a purely academic question. At eighty, I must be counted senile to attempt to stand for office.
ZT: Why are you not a member of any political party in Nigeria?
Soyinka: Temperament. In any case, I did try to set up a
political party – as a platform for a new generation. Ironically, it
lost steam when the members found I was dead serious about NOT
contesting any office. They came in mostly on personalized grounds, not
on faith in a carefully worked out manifesto. But the party still exists
– at least as a movement.
ZT: Some people say the reason you are not a card carrying
member of any political party is because you are a lone ranger who finds
it difficult to work in a collective. How true is this?
Soyinka: Far too sweeping a claim. Those with whom I’ve
worked politically etc. have come to acknowledge my capacity for team
work. Ask for voiced observations during the 2-year long PRONACO
initiative. However, there’s some truth in it. I tend to work best as a
one-man Task Force, including even the roles of messenger, coffee maker
and office cleaner.
ZT: How are you able to sustain friendship with politicians who are known to be corrupt?
Soyinka: “Known to be corrupt? ‘Known’ is a presumptive
claim. When I set up the Monitoring Unit for the Corps. I knew what I
was doing. I understood the nature of our society from which the Corps
would be drawn, so I took pre-emptive measures. Next to the commodities
of corruption, and religion, however, Nigeria is the world capital of
rumour mongering, so I wanted to nail offenders with no route for
escape. Now, am I supposed to do the same for all of Nigeria? You, the
EFCC, ICPC, the numerous anti-graft divisions of the police – you must
do your job. Identify, investigate and prosecute.
Now, I am going to come closer to specificities. I cannot pretend not to
know one or two names among my acquaintances who are presumed to have a
cloud of corruption over their heads. I shall not mention names, since
this would only contribute unfairly towards the promotion of such
allegations. What I can testify to is that one such prominent figure –
if we are thinking of the same businessman and politician – was a
front-line collaborator during the anti-Abacha struggle. After that
nightmare, when Obasanjo began to flout the constitution, humiliate the
courts, and generally prove his real nature in an attempt to reduce this
nation to yet another slave plantation, that individual earned further
spurs by standing firm. Your agency invited him for questioning, and he
later gave me his account of what transpired. If you do find a cause to
charge him with corruption, I expect him to be subjected to the same
legal processes as any other citizen. If found guilty, then he must take
his punishment and make public restitution. Until then, I can only
judge him on what I know to be true, and that is – an astute and dogged
political fighter and comrade-in-arms. Otherwise, how am I different
from those who defame my own person? What then separates me from
slanderous whelps like Sanni Abacha’s offspring – just to name one
notorious beneficiary of massive, internationally proven corruption –
who declares that I am no better than his father!
ZT: As a global citizen are you often embarrassed by Nigeria’s reputation for corruption?
Soyinka: As a global citizen, I sometimes feel like denying my identity.
ZT: Have you personally found yourself in a situation where you
were asked to offer bribe for a service? If yes, how did you deal with
the situation?
Soyinka: Certainly. Such people did not repeat their
attempt. Sadly however, I discovered in one particular case that a
colleague went and paid the bribe on my behalf, just to get our mission
fulfilled. That was painful, and it strained our friendship.
ZT: You were once supportive of President Jonathan. At what point did you decide to withdraw your support from the president?
Soyinka: No, it was never anything personal. We marched
in order to protect the constitution, not the person of Jonathan. We
retained a cordial relationship during his tenure however, despite some
attacks I felt compelled to launch on him – and his wife. Jonathan
committed some truly alarming errors of governance. He was propelling
himself towards outright fascism.
ZT: Some observers say you have a tendency to always find fault in others. How correct is this?
Soyinka: Why should that be surprising? Pity you can’t be present during my periodic fault-finding sessions with my image in the mirror!
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